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Talk:Homestuck Kids
Midnight Crew Poster In case anyone still believes that DMK's head appears in Dave's poster here is a close up decently sized thumbnail of it. Whoever added that line most likely thought that Spade's piano was the hat/forehead.Koolkevk 16:50, 15 July 2009 (UTC) Heh. He has another poster. You're not looking hard enough. It's on his right wall. It merely only shows DMK's hair in his third form. However, I think most people would recognize that poster and I suppose that could warrant as the actual poster for this article. Kbmr 17:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC) Secondly, I'm glad you appreciate the article - I'm aware that the Wiki isn't as popular as some other sites that have been popping up (I don't frequent the forums much) but that is because it is exceedingly difficult to write about the things that are not cold hard facts in a Wiki. Speculation and conjecture are just that, and writing about tropes, metadata, and occurrences that show up elsewhere is fairly difficult to do within this format and to keep it proper. It's probable that I have pushed a few away due to my corrections of trying to keep the place squeaky clean. However, it is obvious enough to anyone paying a little bit attention that the story being done here is very purposeful that such things can be written about with there being little to no debate. 17:54, 15 July 2009 (UTC) Ah, now I see it. The way the article was originally written, It sounded as if it meant they were both on the same poster. I'm sure we could include a mention of the second poster in a more clear manner, although if you wish to keep it out then I won't disagree.Koolkevk 03:11, 16 July 2009 (UTC) I will keep it out. The Midnight Crew is one is more fitting and more obvious. Kbmr 13:17, 16 July 2009 (UTC) Rose's Element This could mention the waterfall? running through her house, in addition to it being rainy. I'd put it there myself, but I'm not sure that's 100% accurate and I'm too lazy to go look. wewt. Aryst0krat 03:47, October 15, 2009 (UTC) Updates on the page Kickass job on keeping this page tight. I can see a lot of attention is being paid to it. If anything, all this similarity shit will probably coincide with something at the end, so keeping it accurate may give us clues as to what may happen next by finding the obvious discrepancies. I think it would be a nice compliment to the troll navbox to have one for our main characters. Homestuck Kids being the title and link to this page. Then a link for each child. I think it would be a nice addition, make this place a little bit classier. Loverdesang 02:56, July 14, 2010 (UTC) John's troll Maybe at this point it's oversimple to say that each kid has one troll, since many of them talk to more than one -- but if we do, I think John's troll is GallowsCalibrator rather than CarcinoGeneticist. After all, GC threatened to cut his throat, and that's what made him change his chumhandle. (By the way, the DNA base pairings don't seem to have any particular relevance to the kid-troll interactions; but if they did, guanine binds with cytosine and adenine binds with thymine, so we'd expect John (GT) to have a bond with CA, Rose to have a bond with AA, etc. As I said, this doesn't seem to be happening.) 03:21, March 5, 2010 (UTC) Kid Titles There are four titles mentioned first by Nanna in her letter to John. These are The "Heir of Breath" "Seer of Light" "Knight of Time" and "Witch of Space". *The Heir is John, the Questant refers to him as such. This is probably due to his guardian being his father. Breath is also relevant to Air being his element. *Rose is refered to as The Seer by both the Questant and the trolls. Seer could be to do with her pschoanalytical abilities, Light refering to The Kingdom of Light and Rain. *Dave is refered to as the Knight by the trolls. He is the most skilled combatant, and his weapon of choice is bladekind. *Through process of elimination, it is most probable that Jade is the Witch of Space. Her guardian, Bec, is seemingly capable of manipulating Time and Space at will, and could be her witch's familiar. These are all mentioned in the articles of the individual characters, but not in this page. I think it should be added post-haste, though I wanted to confirm I wasn't missing anything major. Also, what would be the most appropreite heading name? GruffyBears 20:45, March 17, 2010 (UTC) Alternate Outfits Is it too soon to talk about alternate outfits? John has his blue suit and Dave has acquired a white tux evidently, but the girls haven't gotten a wardrobe upgrade yet. --Gnauga 14:53, April 2, 2010 (UTC) Relationships tab in my opinion all the kids pages should have a relationships tab. Every troll has one, so why not the kids? How should we handle character age ranges in infoboxes? When the beta kids arrive in the alpha session, Homestuck will have covered a timeframe of 3 years, not counting Hivebent, flashbacks, the weeks alternate future Dave and dream Rose spent in a doomed timeline or other time shenanigans. IMO the infoboxes should cover characters' age ranges throughout the story's main timeframe (either as an age range, such as "13-16", or as a list of ages at specific points in the storyline, such as "13 (SBURB beta session), 16 (SBURB alpha session)") instead of only listing their ages at the most recent point in the story. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 09:41, November 13, 2012 (UTC) :Every wikia I've seen for age uses the current age, some do note when a character loses their age at one point in time for one reason or another. 14:24, November 13, 2012 (UTC) ::It seems like a fairly common practice to me, at least for comic, animation and video game wikis. The Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Bleach, Naruto and One Piece wikis all handle timeskips by listing pre-timeskip and post-timeskip ages. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 02:42, November 14, 2012 (UTC) :::So list all the ages and explain where each age is from? I would be behind that. 14:20, November 20, 2012 (UTC) Element foreshadowing The Alpha Kids all have their element foreshadowed in the second-to-last sentence of their introduction page. (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006364 Roxy's, for example: "To fill this VOID in your life.") Is that important/interesting enough to warrant an addition, or did everyone know about it? 21:51, September 12, 2013 (UTC) :The word you're looking for is Aspect. Anyway yeah, it might be worth noting, even given how blatantly obvious it was in retrospect (especially with the gratuitous capitalization). I sure didn't see it on my first readthrough, though. Also of note (albeit way more subtle), all of their Classes are also mentioned in their intro pages! 00:14, September 13, 2013 (UTC) ::Are you sure he meant aspect? If you recall there was a big human elements thing a while ago that I think got deleted because it was likely just coincidence. 19:56, September 13, 2013 (UTC) :::I know what that is. John-Air, Rose-Water, Dave-Fire, Jade-Earth, Jane-Helium, Roxy-Neon, Dirk-Krypton, Jake-Xenon. But this is all irrelevant, because if you'd read what the OP here said, "The Alpha Kids all have their element foreshadowed in the second-to-last sentence of their introduction page. (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006364 Roxy's, for example: "To fill this VOID in your life.")" I'm not seeing where the ambiguity lies, it's pretty clear they meant Aspects. 23:04, September 13, 2013 (UTC) ::::Hmm, I guess that is true, my mistake then. 15:12, September 17, 2013 (UTC) Day of creation Should it be noted that all HS kids share the same day of creation (a few days after Johns entrance into the medium). This is seperate from their date of arrival which would be when their meteor crashed. The2ndplayer (talk) 18:25, January 5, 2014 (UTC) :Hmm, I can find no note of the ectobiology on the page so perhaps something should be added about it. On a minor note; John had been in the Medium less than a single day when he did the ectobiology, not several days. - The Light6 (talk) 23:51, January 5, 2014 (UTC) ::Yeah the entire session took place in the 24 hours after Jack slayed the Black King and initiated the Reckoning, and whatever short amount of time preceded that. I believe only Jade had failed to enter the Medium by that point. 08:56, January 6, 2014 (UTC) :::On that note, this discussion prompted me into actually figuring out how much time passed from the start of Homestuck to S Descend; . Well roughly, give or take half an hour. :::Which on that note, since Homestuck began at around 4 pm in John's time zone, which means from the perspective of John (and his time zone) it was around midnight he did the ectobiology, which means depending on the exact timing he either did it on April 13th or 14, of course the obvious answer would be 13th. But regardless of John's time zone, it was definitely already April 14th for Dave and Rose. - The Light6 (talk) 15:08, January 6, 2014 (UTC) Clean-up This is ridiculous folly. I'm considering re-organizing it so that it specifies each character and their traits under a certain area about them. Is that good? :I have been unhappy with this article for a long time, if you think you can clean it up you are welcome to try. For a large page clean-up it may take time to sort everything and you may want to seek opinions from other users on your work, in which case you may want to consider using a sandbox page, for example; User: /Sandbox. - The Light6 (talk) 07:04, March 27, 2014 (UTC) :P.S. Please remember to sign your posts by adding four tildes (~~~~) to the end of your posts. Rename : Also we may want to consider moving Homestuck Kids to Human : That is another thing I proposed to Aepokk, although he was less convinced about that (the making of a "human" page I mean, not the limits of the category) : But yeah, on Homestuck Kids... I've kind of hated that article title for a long time : The "kids" part should be lowercase for one : And we don't have an article for "Hivebent Trolls" or ... uh... "Meteor...chained... Cherubs" : That too : The others get species articles; so too should the kids : We also have a guardian article, although Bec is included in that : That's my view, at least Here's the rationale for renaming the page to "Human". Some lines have been snipped out as they concerned the related category changes that have been done today. Note that there is flexibility here; for instance, we may want to have a general humans article and one for humans in Homestuck. This is all stuff to be discussed here :I think a human article is a tad too general. Perhaps we should just have a general article for the Sburb players? The2ndplayer (talk) 17:54, June 23, 2014 (UTC) ::The concern I have here is consistency. We have Troll and we have Cherub. There is no reason whatsoever that the kids should be treated differently. So, yes, we could have an article for Sburb players, though that feels pretty redundant given that we have Sburb, this page, and the two species pages. But if we did, a Human article is still entirely justified. At which point the question would be, do we then incorporate this page's information into both the Human and theoretical Sburb players article, or do we remove information about the players from the other two species articles? Because whatever we do, it should be consistent :::Throwing my own comments into this (even though my comments are already right at the beginning of this discussion): Many other sci-fi and/or fantasy wikis that deal with multiple species do in fact have pages for humans due to either; objectivity and/or due how the fictional history of humanity as defined within their canons differs greatly from real life and is important in defining (including future history), for example; Stargate, Star Wars, Star Trek, Adventure Time, Halo, Mass Effect, Fallout and Lord of the Rings. Of course those wikis are their own wikis and we are our own wiki, but my point is under the right conditions having a human article is a self evident thing to do. Given stories like Homestuck do deal with multiple highly different species including humans, there is no way around the objectivity argument (as objectivity is usually a core component of wiking), except by invoking "Ignore All Rules" (which I had been meaning to write up). As for the "fictional history" arguement, yes, this applies to basically all MSPA stories, and even non-MSPA stories. :::Although I might have to voice a minor disagreement with something I agreed with in the above quote, aside from this page we do have multiple pages for groups of characters, including the guardian article which is already cited, however those group pages are typically for more formal groups, for example Team Sleuth, Midnight Crew and and the troll teams (which is really an article not about a formal group itself but about multiple formal groups; the Red Team, Blue Team, and Team Adorabloodthirsty). Personally I am not opposed to groups of characters having their own pages to help define the group, but a discussion a pages for individual groups is a separate discussion from one about whether there should be a human article or not, which means if we want to have those discussions combining them in a suggestion for renaming this article might not be the best idea. Also given the article's current state converting it to a human article would basically require starting from scratch, so why not just do that? Start a new human article and then decide and work out what to do with this article. - The Light6 (talk) 12:33, July 2, 2014 (UTC) ::::Certainly a fair concern. Personally, I'd say there's not a lot of reason to have a separate article for the kids; in particular, the case of troll teams is a bit of an oddity. It's not really about the trolls as players so much as the way their session played out... which I think is kind of what you were getting at...? A pretty subtle but important difference. ::::Honestly, I think the trickiest matter is simply that while I never liked the title "Homestuck Kids" (it just doesn't sound like a proper title), the point at which it became an actual problem is, in my eyes, when Act 5 started, and it got a lot worse with the start of Act 6. Because to define them as the "Homestuck Kids" is really only by analogy with "Hivebent trolls" (which, as noted, is Not A Thing That Is An Article) – HS in this instance referring to the covering name for the B1 session,* as Hivebent is to A2. Because otherwise, they're Homestuck trolls as well, taking HS as the full work. But here's the rub: are the B2 kids Homestuck kids? Because as far as I can recall, B2 is not known as Homestuck in the way that B1 is, and the way that A2 is Hivebent. Crucial point there of "in the way that". ::::The tl;dr of the above paragraph is that it's really quite hard to justify the current page title regardless of which of the two ways you interpret Homestuck in it. So, in any case, it really needs renaming. And to me, the most logical thing to rename it to, entirely in consistency with the trolls and cherubs, is to call it Human. With some flexibility about partitioning it by adventure, as I said before ::::EDIT: Also, to anyone suggesting just calling it "Kids" on the basis of my concerns about including "Homestuck" in the title, I would like to register my pre-emptive opposition to that suggestion, on the basis that it'd be rather missing the point (and also still sounds really crappy as a title) ::::::In regards to the issue of if the there should be a Human page or not, I'm in favor, but I'm trying to thing what we would need on there. I assume most readers know what human romance is, or human biology(and except for to contrast it with other races these topics are not really adressed objectively in the comic) and then do we add humans from Hussies previous works into this proposed article? I'm not sure. Whohoohuwhu (talk) 08:33, July 4, 2014 (UTC) :::::::Let's see, important human stuff.... :::::::*Humans evolved on Earth in Universe B. They were wiped out by the Reckoning in the pre-Scratch / B1 timeline, while in the post-Scratch / B2 timeline, they were gradually driven to extinction by the Condesce. :::::::*An explanation of how humans got to wherever the Homestuck Adventure Game takes place, once we know where it takes place and how humans got there. :::::::*Standard human romance resembles troll matespritship and leprechaun heart romance. :::::::*Any specific, significant differences that are pointed out in the comic (such as how humans are , or how the Condesce ). :::::::-- Gordon Ecker (talk) 09:44, July 4, 2014 (UTC) (indent reset) I tried my hand at a human article mockup, if it were to be created. Designed to be similar to Troll article. Not really intended to be complete in any sense. Enjoy? 21:10, July 7, 2014 (UTC) :While there is nothing wrong with the mockup so to speak, it does kind of illustrate a problem we have with certain articles. We talk about how the troll article is a species article but it frequently jumps back and forth between being about the species and being about the group of trolls which are the main characters. That is not to say it shouldn't focus on the ones we know as representatives of their species, just more that it shouldn't represent them as the species. As I mentioned it has been a problem with other articles and has been improved inconsistently, like cleaning a room a few inches at a time; see these edits: diff=110148&oldid=110143}} lusus, diff=151910&oldid=151655}} ancestors, diff=150106&oldid=150105}} trolls and diff=156324&oldid=155775}} another troll edit. This is part of the reason why I am not really opposed to group articles as it helps to establish a clear divide between species and concept articles and articles about groups of characters. Certain newer articles are better written in this regard (cherub and leprechaun). So the problem is more with the style and standard that is present and I can hardly fault anyone for following those while they continue to be used. Although the mockup article is Homestuck centric, which is a problem for a species that isn't Homestuck exclusive, unless we want to follow the suggestion to have separate articles for Homestuck humans compared to other humans. - The Light6 (talk) 04:00, July 8, 2014 (UTC) So the addition of the adventure game heading to the page just brings this back up. Because Joey isn't a Homestuck kid. She's a Hiveswap kid. And if we chose to interpret "Homestuck" as an adjective instead, then she's... well, an Alterniabound kid, let's be honest. Just throwing that point into the matter :Yeah, I'm fully in support of the page being renamed and accordingly rearranged. 18:29, November 5, 2014 (UTC) ::Support. (I even have a "test page") :::I support a change. But if we names this humans we'd have to list every single human character, including the guardians and people like guy fieri. And that's not the point of this article at all. It is about a specific group of people and a concept, similar to the "guardians" and "ancestors". So renaming this into humans imo does not work at all! Instead we probably have to create a seperate "human" page and turn this into "Sburb players", but that would not work with the hiveswap kids. "Playable characters" is more inclusive...but too inclusive because we'd have to include all characters you can "be" which would include the exiles etc. So "human players" probably works best? Or maybe even simply "protagonists"? :::No matter what we end up doing we have to adjust the troll article respectively. We have to rip out the character focused part and give it it's own article ("sgrub players")...or merge it with this one in case this gets renamed to simply "protagonists". I think the issue is really more about finding a proper name for this group of people. I honestly think that "kids" kinda is the best and easiest way to refer to this group. Perhaps "heroes" would be a possible alternative? After all that is the generic term for a player (hero of something), but then we don't know if the hiveswap kids will actually have titles like that. But they could still be considered the heroes of their story...so eh? I don't know. 07:02, May 29, 2015 (UTC) Quadratum Oculos I don't know if this belongs here, but I thought of something. If you're familiar with the phrase "quadratum oculos," it's Latin, meaning "square eyes." It's the name of a condition or something where you've watched too much TV. Guess who has square-ish eyes? The kids known for watching a lot of movies. S.P. Sour (talk) 23:29, September 3, 2014 (UTC) :I'm not too sure about this, I'm pretty sure his eyes appear that shape because glasses. Whohoohuwhu (talk) 21:09, October 27, 2014 (UTC) ::Wouldn't glasses have a bridge between them like Jade's and Jane's? S.P. Sour (talk) 21:25, October 27, 2014 (UTC) :::You would think so, and indeed some they are sometimes rendered with what appears to be a bridge, additionally when they blink the square does not go away , and sometimes it it appears as if they are , and with both characters they have been , how could any of that happen if they weren't glasses? Whohoohuwhu (talk) 22:20, October 27, 2014 (UTC) ::::That'' is'' a good point. But why make some glasses have a bridge and not others? Maybe he just decided to have John's\Jake's glasses look like square eyes for the purpose of the QO thing? S.P. Sour (talk) 04:13, October 29, 2014 (UTC) :::::could be... although I did a quick google search for the term you used "quadrum oculos" turned up no relevant results, when I searched for "square eyes" I found this If you say someone is or will go square-eyed, you mean they are watching too much television: You'll go square-eyed if you sit in front of that TV any more!" so it sounds like this condition might be something made up by parents to get kids to watch less TV, although John and Jake both watched excessive TV, which is probably why they have glasses, and glasses are probably why they appear to have square eyes. Whohoohuwhu (talk) 04:54, October 29, 2014 (UTC) Moved article back to "Homestuck Kids" The article got moved to Humans, but then no changes were actually made to reflect that, and the custom name thing was still set to Homestuck Kids, so I figured I'd just clean up the mess and move it back to where it goes. If we do want a Humans article, I think it should be an entirely separate thing from this one. But personally, I think we don't, and just having a "Humans" category is good enough if you wanna look through all the ''homo sapiens ''to be found in Homestuck. Sporkaganza (talk) 23:34, December 23, 2015 (UTC) Hiveswap kids necessary? So, I almost added the Hiveswap kids to the big comparisons/parallels table, but then decided "yeah, no, a lot of this doesn't even apply to them" (no chumhandles, an inventory system completely separate from sylladices and strife specibi, etc.) and that got me thinking: are the Hiveswap kids even really necessary to this page? Let's begin. *This page is very clearly called "Homestuck Kids", and last I checked, Hiveswap is not Homestuck. That, and an attempt to re-designate this page as "humans" has failed. \s *Are we seriously going to include every human character in Hauntswitch in this? Especially since, unlike Alternia, adults are present on Earth and therefore will likely be characters, even if they're not playable. *As said above, Joey and Jude just don't fit into the neat little categories made for Homestuck's characters, as those depend on recent technology, both in real life (instant messaging, PC gaming) and in the Homestuck verse (sylladices, fetch modi, strife specibi). If anything, as she was born in 1980, Joey has more in common with Hussie than with the target audience of Homestuck/Hiveswap. That, and since apparently, the Homestuck kids each have their own "lens" through which everything else is viewed... what are the "lens" for Joey and Jude? ASBusinessMagnet (talk) 20:19, October 8, 2017 (UTC)